That's typical human arrogance, we're not needed by the world. When the human race is extinct the world will still be here and will probably be better off to be honest considering how much damage we've caused it.



We've barely explored our own solar system, and the universe is a vast place so I'd be extremely surprised if there was no other life out there. Even if there wasn't the universe will still continue to function the same way it always has done.

You're treading dangerously close to theology here, mah boi.

Add this sauce to your sauteing noodle: What if the reason for how you feel has to do with you knowing on some deeper, baser, unconscious level that THERE IS MORE to existence than this mortal, earthly, flesh-and-blood form you occupy now? If you didn't, would there be any feelings of unease tied to the realization that mankind's existence is pointless and doomed to eventual oblivion?

Just a thought.

I plan on getting cremated. Roaming the world to wherever the winds may take me.

Or use those ashes to compound into a diamond or pencil because THATS HOW I ROLL!

So what if there was a "creator" but it doesn't really give a shit about us? Is it worth worshipping? If you want to take these holy books literally then you couldn't turn around with each particular god doing something when they were written but now... nothing.

If I were to believe, this is what I could believe. Why be a creator and not make your presence known other than through questionable material? Why this ultimate mystery about your existence? It all sounds like a sick mind game really, either follow blindly or suffer the consequences, which you can't logically believe might exist.

Not only is it human centric, its individual centric. What's the point of anything if you don't exist? The world, people you know, places, the universe, all only exist how you perceive it. Its the reason God can exist for one person and not another, how an astronaut can circle the globe an marvel at the stars while a tribal person is content in a mud hut, how you either like Pepsi or Coke. Nothing matters if you don't perceive it to matter. If you don't exist, then your view of the world doesn't exist. Yet here we are, existing, asking millenia old questions to which there are no perceivable answers.

What's the point? You hit the nail on the head.

And in a thousand years time, if there are no humans left, then whatever answers we find now will be far more pointless.

Sorry to go off topic....and to ramble. I just re-read this and it didn't make a lick of sense.

Consider this, then I'll stop dragging stuff off-topic. I promise.

IF there is a "creator" of life, the universe, and everything... WHY do it? What would be your motive in creating a sentient race of beings? And then what would be the point of giving them free will? Let's consider some possibilities:

1. You require their belief in order to exist or to maintain your existence.
2. You're a cruel b*stard who gets amused by burning the ants in your ant farm with a magnifying glass.
3. You desire companionship, like a pet doggie.
4. You desire companionship, like a friend.

Let's tackle number 2 first. If it's true, than we're all f*cked, and any conjecture on the subject is null and void. However, just in case it's NOT true, let's continue. (Anyway, I doubt that it's true... even a bully gets bored. And really, what's the logic behind cruelty for cruelty's sake?)

If the answer is 1 or 3, simply creating them would do the trick, but giving them free will would be redundant, or even antithetical to your goals. If they can choose NOT to believe in and worship you, you run the risk of having a "bad doggie," or ceasing to exist if the populace chooses to NOT sustain you with their belief.

So of the four, only number 4 makes some kind of sense. Stay with me here.

In order to have a relationship on the level of true friendship / companionship, you need someone who is equal with you in some respect. A boss-employee relationship doesn't work, because the underling has a motive of self-preservation - keep the boss happy, or I get fired. A man and dog thing doesn't work, because the dog is obviously NOT the mental or emotional equivalent to man, and likely wouldn't be IN the relationship if there weren't material rewards attached - food and living space, for instance.

"But HOW can I create a companion that is truly my equal, and is a willing partner, unmotivated by fear or material needs?" says God. Answer: I give them my "image" - the ability to dream, create, reason, love, and CHOOSE their own path. That way, if they DO desire a relationship with me, I KNOW it's for genuine reasons - the same ones I have.

Here's the problem: if I make unbelief in myself impossible (by floating around on a cloud where everyone can see me, for example,) then I remove free will from the equation. I lose the possibility of having "companionship," and am left with just another form of automatons, worshiping me with no reason to do so other than the fact that they can't choose to NOT believe in me.

Here's the rub: people who believe in God and subscribe to a religion just to get a "get out of hell free card" miss the point entirely. "Hell" in Christian theology isn't some cave full of burning lakes and some dude in red jammies with horns and a pitchfork cackling and poking you with it. (You can thank Dante, Goethe, and Milton for those particular images.) "Hell" is simply an eternity outside the presence of God. The only way to get there is to CHOOSE to get there - NOT by breaking a list of rules, etc., but by choosing to NOT be in that friendship when it is offered to you. And then the consequence is a natural one - I choose to NOT be with God, and as a result I'm not with God.

Source from me from another post I made on here a while back in another thread.

Dinosaurs & Humans:
Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. They were supposed to be the rulers of the earth. It was said that a great meteor came down and killed them off when the atmosphere was covered in a giant layer of ash blocking out the sun and killing off all the plants. There are a few holes in this theory. The main one is that if all the dinosaurs were killed then why are there still some around today? Crocodiles and Aliigators are dinosaurs. Almost exactly the same as fossils and bones found around the world. Many birds like Emus and Ostriches to name a few are almost exact duplicates of creatures that lives so long ago when this was supposed to of happened.

Now back, lets say, 3000 years ago people didnt have the technology that we did. They dont have computers and many of them no writing system or one that we dont understand today. The Aztecs, Incans and Mayans all showed signs of dinosaurs and such interacting with humans in drawings, carvings, and other artistic media that is because that is how they communicated. Much like us making a painting or a movie about what had happened. If a metor came down and killed us all would the future people of the earth not believe that we had cars that we controlled to drive around in even if they saw our movies and stuff?

If dinosaurs and such didnt exist with humans how can you explain all the artifacts that show this? Just a really strange coinsidence that specific dinosaurs were shown with humans in some of the images I posted earlier in this thread? The chances of this happening in communities located in places like Cambodia, Australia, the US, Canada, Mexico, Peru etc etc and all of them coming really really close to what we know about dinosaurs in their drawings is beyond a coinsidence.

What about writings in the Bible and other texts which speak of giant lizards roaming the earth and causing problems for people? Its hard to ignore. No its not happening today, but think about it. Just because we dont see it infront of us now and are solely relying on theories from people and a proven variable dating system of carbon its like using a crayon to paint the Mona Lisa. Sure it will get done, but you used the wrong tools when others were at your disposal, just because you didnt like them.

Here are some examples of evidence.

They talk about dinosaurs in the Bible. Here are some examples.
Job 40:15-24

It “eats grass like an ox.”
It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
“He is the first of the ways of God.”
“He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”

Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. This is only a partial listing—just enough to make the point.


“No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.”
“Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around?”
“His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them; they are joined one to another, they stick together and cannot be parted.”
“His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.”
“Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; he laughs at the threat of javelins.”
“On earth there is nothing like him, which is made without fear.”
Leviathan “played” in the “great and wide sea” (a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26—get the exact sense by reading them yourself).
Leviathan is a “reptile [a] that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1)

Here is some more information from newer stuff.

Modern Evidence
There is a growing body of evidence that dinosaurs and humans were contemporary. In 1970 newspapers reported the discovery of cave paintings in Zimbabwe. The paintings were made by bushmen who ruled that area from about 1500 B.C., until a couple of hundred years ago. Along with accurate representations of the elephant and the giraffe, is a painting of an Apatosaurus (brontosaurus). These art works have greatly puzzled scientists since bushmen are known to have painted from real life! (Bible-Science Newsletter, April 15, 1970, p. 2).

About seventy years ago, Dr. Samuel Hubbard, curator of archaeology in the Oakland (California) Museum, discovered dinosaur carvings on the cliff walls of the Hava Supai Canyon in Arizona. One remarkable carving resembles a Tyrannosaurus. Nearby, dinosaur tracks were preserved in the rock surface. (For a picture of this carving, see our book, {glossSub (“Courier Publications”,”The Mythology of Modern Geology”)}, 1990 edition, p. 31.)

What about the Paluxy Tracks?
When the discovery of what appeared to be human footprints, along with dinosaur tracks (in the Paluxy River bed near Glen Rose, Texas), was reported in the May 1939 issue of Natural History, it created a furor that has not subsided to this very day. For decades it seemed obvious to careful observers that this was clear evidence of human/dinosaur co-habitation.

Then, a few years ago, Glen Kuban, a computer programmer from Cleveland, Ohio, discovered chemical discolorations at the front of some of the human-like prints. This led him and others to suggest that the human-like tracks were not human at all; rather, they were simply portions of the dinosaur tracks that had been altered by mud-fill.

Those who were disposed to believe in the theory of evolution alleged that this destroyed the Paluxy evidence once and for all. Some creationists, e.g., those of the Institute of Creation Research in San Diego, adopted a wait-and-see policy until further research is forthcoming. Others were not so easily swayed. Two authors, Robert F. Helfinstine and Jerry D. Roth, recently produced a study which strongly argues for the validity of comtemporary human/dinosaur tracks (Helfinstine & Roth, Texas Tracks And Artifacts, 1994, Privately Published).

It has even been speculated that someone may have “doctored” some of the dinosaur/human prints to eradicate the impression of “humanness.” Evolutionists, of course, desperately want to discredit the tracks as human, for as some of them have conceded: “Such an occurrence [i.e., human and dinosaur tracks in the same stratum], if verified, would seriously disrupt conventional interpretations of biological and geological history and would support the doctrines of creationism and catastrophism”

Oh and just for good measure here are some pictures of anchient civilizations and drawings/carving/sculptures they did of dinosaurs.

Here are some images from thousands of years ago that some of you might find interesting.

Man riding what looks to be a Triceritops from anchient Peru.


Peru men fighting some sort of dinosaur.


Another image of anchient Peruvian people fighting dinosaurs.


Anchient cave drawing of Africans fighting some sort of water Dinosaur.


More images of dinosaurs in South American history. Tapestry to the left, urn to the right and I dont know why they have a dead person on the bottom. Maybe they were burial items or something.


Inca Stones collected by Dr Javier Cabrera. These look like stegasaurus to me.


Anchient Cambodian Temple with images of dinosaurs on it.



American Native Cave Drawings Of Dinosaurs.



If that is not enough for you guys to have phyical proof then how about looking at some of the history of the world and the myths and oral traditional stories passed on through the generations.

Chinese and Japanese dragons. Mythical fire breating reptiles from anchient Europe. Swimming monsters from the Vikings. Large water dwelling monsters from African lore. Animals whos tales swing like trees in the bible.

The evidence is around you. I dont need a scientist to tell me what I can see with my own eyes. I dont like how athiests say things like "I only believe in what I can see and feel" well what do you guys think about what youre seeing now?

CRX Forum

CRX, that's a pretty interesting find there, I'll admit that I've never seen that before. But overall, it doesn't really prove the existence of a god

It just proves that man live along side stragglers of the dinosaurs

I never said it proves the existance of God. Just saying that maybe all this science and information that is being taken as fact has other scientific backing to negate their theories.



Thats a possibility that on every contenent on the planet that anchient man lived a long side of many different species of dinosaurs from different periods in time. Or maybe its more realistic that carbon dating is flawed and has been proven over and over again to be flawed and maybe the earth and its contents are not nearly as old as they are believed to be.



Dont get me started on aliens and their possible influence on man and how life started with that theory. It makes all this Evolution vs Creation argument look like poop! Poop I say!

CRX Forum

Dang, CRX... I was going to apologize for MY wall of text... well forget it!

Seriously though... verrrry eeeeeenteresting info.

Also something else to think about. Back in the day when the Bible was written and translated into English, or any other language for that matter, there was no word for dinosaur. Giant lizard type monsters were refered to as dragons. They are mentioned as dragons in the Bible over 10 times. Not to mention the other times when they are mentioned as the Leviathan and also in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Sorry for bad spelling of names.

Here is something I wrote about dragons and dinosaurs etc in another thread.

The Chinese and Japanese are not the only people on the planet that believe in 'mythical' creatures known as dragons. Many of you would be suprised that Europeans and North Americans believe this aswell and its a part of our culture and history.

Just look around anywhere in London. You see signs, crests, statues, carvings, gargoyles etc etc of dragons everywhere. I find it hard to believe that these creatures came out of nowhere in all these different cultures to pretty much resemble the exact same things. Family crests are very common in the British empire. Do you think that the amount of dragon symbolism is purely a coinsidence? The stories about Knights slaying dragons all made up? How can stories from 1000 years ago in England be so close to ones 2000-4000 years old from the Bible or even Chinese or Japanese scripts? Do you think the same man went around to all these places over time and spread the rumour of great fire breathing lizards to all these different people?

I know its a far fetched idea. But so are many things untill proof is found and staring you in the face. Many people believed that the coelacanth (pronounced Se-la-camp I didnt spell it or make up the pronunciation) was extinct. That none of them have been around for millions of years untill in the 30s one was caugh off the coast of South Africa. Untill one was captured, and many since then, they were believed to be long gone and only fossils remained of their existance.

What if dragons were similar enough to dinosaurs that they were just put in the same category and said to be one type of dinosaur? How can a range of people all over the world all have the same story? How can this happen unless it was true?

CRX Forum

I hear what your saying CRX, but there's one big problem.
If all these dinosaurs existed up until 3000, or even 1000 years ago, how come no fossils have been found with evidence of that, carbon dating of all dinosaur fossils have always dated them alot older than that.

and yes, European and Asian Dragons do look similar, but there is quite a big difference between them

European:


Chinese:

You're assuming that carbon dating is reliable beyond a certain date range... I'm sure you'd find those who take issue with its usefulness. (Not me, just sayin'.)

Carbon dating isn't the only method used for dating artifacts.

No, but it IS the most-oft touted method for dating ORGANIC stuff. (What other methods did you have in mind, for instance?)

Carbon dating dates objects by determining the amount of carbon decay. Carbon decays at a constant speed over time. It varies, but the amount of decay and variables is slim and doesnt effect age results by that much. Like maybe 1% or less.

However the problem with carbon dating lies with the fact that there is no way of knowning how much carbon was in the object before it started to decay. Depending on the environment and conditions this number can vary greatly.

It has been shown again and again that different pieces of the same item can be dated 100,000 years or more apart from another piece from the same object.

CRX Forum

True, but as Nosebleed stated there are other methods such as:
Thermoluminescence dating
Optically stimulated luminescence
Potassium-argon dating
Amino acid dating

and probably more which I can't find at the moment.

Also by how far underground the fossils are found, they'd have a reasonable idea of the time period in which the creature died