Religion Topic

Eek · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 1:50 am **Posts:** 324

GodLovesYou wrote:

While I loathe ID there is something I have to point out that a lot of people forget: Evolution doesn't debunk the hypothetical existance of a God/Supreme Creator. All it means is that living things evolve in regards to their environment. Theoretically there could be a creator who started it all but that can, as of now, not be proven.

Didn't Pope John Paul II condone the idea that it's possible God creates through evolution?

But yeah, the aversion to the idea from religious groups is staggering. We see it happen constantly on a cellular level with bacteria and viruses, but when it comes to more complex forms of life, everyone has to scream about transitional fossils and carbon dating. Well, first try Archeopteryx (or any dromaeosaurids, like Velociraptor) and then realize that carbon dating is only one tool used to determine age.

GodLovesYou · **Joined:** Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:45 pm **Posts:** 330

Grillranger wrote:

Indeed, I won't deny that. To say that such a thing is impossible would just be narrow minded. As I said though, what I was criticizing was creationism and ID, it's fully possible that a supreme being triggered evolution, there is no proof against that. There is however evidence that the earth is way more than 6000 years old and that beings did not just pop into existence fully formed.

Yeah, and ID deserves criticism; they're trying to pass religion and faith off as science by claiming that all other scientific theories are vague and lack substance.

One very interesting thing though is that most believers in ID shy away from the thought of their creator being alien lifeforms; suddenly they seem to know WAY more definitively than any scientific theory would allow you to know at this stage... <_<

I mainly wanted to point out what I consider to be a strange view that many on "both sides" of this issue have. One does not exclude the other, and when we realize this we can have evolution taught in schools and religion stay in church without the two conflicting.

nosebleed · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:38 pm

i'm going to reveal the mystery of the universe to you in two simple questions. basically believers and non-believers ask themselves two different questions.

believers: who created us?
non-believers: who created god?

it's a complete mind fuck. and thus is the ultimate paradox we can't answer until this "god" shows it's presence. (don't give me any crap about how your "god" does it everyday with religious delusions people like to call "miracles" or some kind of reference to nature and the beauty of the world not happening by accident)

everyone's entitled to there own opinion. mine? there is no god. the "god" theory just doesn't add up for me. i am atheist, respective and tolerant 90% of the time but i do get vigilant and defensive when people try and shove their religious doctrine down my throat.

Shady-Lurker · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:22 am

I'm a Christian of some kind I guess. Like I beleive the whole, God and Jesus, Heaven and Hell thing, but I don't go much further than that.
I've never read the Bible, I don't think mine is the only way and yours is wrong. I never talk about my beleifs (outside of something like this) and I rarely ever even think about them except for the occasional pondering. I don't go to church unless it's for a wedding or chrisening(sp?) or something like that.
Like I said, I beleive the basic things of Christianity, but am not so into it that I deny the accepted age of the Earth or evolution as a whole or things like that.

Wallet · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:27 pm

Let George Carlin explain religion to you: clickity here

Iceland · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:36 pm

If anyone is God in my life. It would be me. I am the only one who can influence my life. I create my path. Random chance sometimes intervenes but then I change my path. I am the driving force in my life.

I believe in random chance and luck. A combination of which created the earth, the heavens and the humans and animals and me for that matter. If that condom hadn't broken at that precise sexual intercourse I would not exist. A combination of random chance and luck.

Low Budget Jeff · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:58 pm

nosebleed wrote:

believers: who created us?
non-believers: who created god?

The only problem with those questions is that I think you have them backwards.

Ask a believe question one - answer is god.
Ask a non-believe question two - answer is god doesn't exist.

Ask a believer who created god, and as a non-believer who created us, and therein lies your mind f*ck.

Here's my only problem with my own belief that we weren't created we evolved. Everything is created from something. Bread is made up of components, rocks, sand, everything is made. Be it naturally or artificially everything is made up of different components.

That's when you then delve in to the Intelligent Design theory that has already been talked about. I read somewhere one time (great reference, yeah?) that the chances of human beings evolving in to what we are today are somewhere in the neighborhood of a billion to one chance. Or something like that anyways. The chances of our DNA forming to what it is today to create human life is pretty much nil.

So that's MY mindf*ck. I am not quite sure I believe in a God, but I'm also not quite sure I believe in evolution. Leaves me in that middle gray area.

Iceland · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:20 pm

Low Budget Jeff wrote:

That's when you then delve in to the Intelligent Design theory that has already been talked about. I read somewhere one time (great reference, yeah?) that the chances of human beings evolving in to what we are today are somewhere in the neighborhood of a billion to one chance. Or something like that anyways. The chances of our DNA forming to what it is today to create human life is pretty much nil.

So that's MY mindf*ck. I am not quite sure I believe in a God, but I'm also not quite sure I believe in evolution. Leaves me in that middle gray area.

But you see... that is the random chance and luck I was talking about.

Okay... so the universe is infinite, right? Or at the least... a really huge fucking place. So you have over a gazillion billion planets in the universe. The odds of something like us (the planet earth, humans) can exist is a gazillion billion against one. Well we are that fucking "one". Even if the chance is an "infinite" against one. the universe is infinite so there will always be that one fluke.

Low Budget Jeff · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:30 pm

Iceland wrote:

Low Budget Jeff wrote:

That's when you then delve in to the Intelligent Design theory that has already been talked about. I read somewhere one time (great reference, yeah?) that the chances of human beings evolving in to what we are today are somewhere in the neighborhood of a billion to one chance. Or something like that anyways. The chances of our DNA forming to what it is today to create human life is pretty much nil.

So that's MY mindf*ck. I am not quite sure I believe in a God, but I'm also not quite sure I believe in evolution. Leaves me in that middle gray area.

Okay... so the universe is infinite, right? Or at the least... a really huge fucking place. So you have over a gazillion billion planets in the universe. The odds of something like us (the planet earth, humans) can exist is a gazillion billion against one. Well we are that fucking "one". Even if the chance is an "infinite" against one. the universe is infinite so there will always be that one fluke.

Haha, my mind is having a tough enough time trying to wrap itself around my own ideas. Trying to wrap myself around an infinite to one chance, and knowing that it is possible we are that one does not help matters any. In fact...I have a headache now. :-o

It's like the big bang theory, yeah? It's hard for me to think that at one point there was nothing. I'm talking nothing. Then boom. Then dust gathers to form stars. Stars gather to form solar systems. And so on and so forth. But that's another topic. Well, actually, I guess it could fit in here. But I'm not going there yet.

But thanks for the food for thought. Now I'm going to be dreaming about infinite to one chances. :-D

Goligoth · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:21 am

I consider myself an agnostic. I do believe in god, but not one bound to any religion. Lemme rephrase that, I believe in a higher being whether that be a god, angel, etc. I never actually believed in any religion, I was raised Catholic but I just never liked the idea that the all-powerful god needs you to devote your life to him, pray to him before/after any such occasion. About a year or two ago I started to look for other religions and it's all the same, a deity(or several) that is all-powerful but still requires your constant prayer and devotion. It just seems that these gods were a little too egotistical/egocentric which pretty much made me stop in a religion. But I still had this.. faith inside me that kept telling me that there is something out there that has this power, but I still haven't found an incarnation of this deity that isn't so egotistical.

CaptainMonday · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:24 am

To me it never realy was a question wether there is a god or not. I could very well be asking myself wether there is a Santa or not. I believe in people and their power to create. But God? C'mon: some overpowered being stearing down at us, based on 2 impossible concepts 1 being allmighty 2 being "good" as oposed to "evil". I can see why some people in the middle ages would believe that stuff but now we have a thing called education.

The funny thing about religious people is that when you ask them detailed questions about god (how they imagine him, what hes capable of ect.) they get confused and start saying things like "you just don't understand it". Well, my friend, neither do you.

As for religion as a company (because thats what it is) I think it brought some good things aswell as some bad things to the world. Good things like hope, meaning of life and some moral values, bad things like war, extremism and intolerance.

In the end, it's all a cultural thing.

Tyson212 · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 10:56 pm **Posts:** 229

Here are my views on Religon. Don't read it if you are very religious and would be offended my me posting non religious stuffs.....Where the fuck is the spoiler button?

Anyways....What the hell is the point of religion. Is there any proof that any of this shit happened. Right now i could make up some story about some made up person (Ex Jebus). And i could make it into a religion. Have like a bunch of stories. And it would be the fuckin' same as the other religions. I just don't get it. Does your religion help you in any way? No you just beleive it and then....(I don't know cause i am not religious). Who made religion? Who cares people should be out living their lives instead of practicing their religion. I don't have a problem with religious people. I don't mean to bash religion. But seriously what the fuck is the point of it? Your giving up your time to do shit that doesent help you in any way whatsoever. Some people beleive in god. But they arent religious. Thats fine.

Sorry for kind of bashing it there. Thats just my opinion of religion.

GodLovesYou · **Joined:** Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:45 pm **Posts:** 330

Low Budget Jeff wrote:

Haha, my mind is having a tough enough time trying to wrap itself around my own ideas. Trying to wrap myself around an infinite to one chance, and knowing that it is possible we are that one does not help matters any. In fact...I have a headache now. :-o

It's like the big bang theory, yeah? It's hard for me to think that at one point there was nothing. I'm talking nothing. Then boom. Then dust gathers to form stars. Stars gather to form solar systems. And so on and so forth. But that's another topic. Well, actually, I guess it could fit in here. But I'm not going there yet.

But thanks for the food for thought. Now I'm going to be dreaming about infinite to one chances. :-D

It's really not that complicated... I have a science magazine at home (naturally I don't have it here so the reference will be a bit blurry until I come home the next time in case you want the article as proof of what I'm talking about) where they put it this way:

Say the odds of human life being "randomly created" (there's nothing random about evolution despite what ID and Creationism followers preach, but I digress) is a billion to one, seeing as how the cells needed to evolve this way need the right planet and the right conditions at just the right time. Now, let's say, just for the sake of argument, that there is ten trillion stars in the universe (and that is a very low count by any estimation) and that every star is orbited by eight planets. Each planet will pass through a stage where life is made possible and human life is one in a billion to be created.

You kind of see how the odds for humans coming into existance really aren't that small when you put it into perspective (granted, humans are HORRIBLE at that)

Grillranger · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:32 am

Just wanted to point something out in this likelihood theory; let's keep one thing in mind: While odds of us being the way we are by random chance is extremely small, we have to remember one thing, that everything has exist in a certain state. It might be one in a trillion, but we still have to exist on one of the states in that trillion.

This is a problem for creationists, they can divide and find as much unlikelihood as they want, without taking into account that even if we were created, our existence would be just as unlikely as we simply have to exist in a certain state. And lets not forget, regardless of how small the chances are, given enough time it will happen. And since the universe is infinite, I'd say there's plenty of time. :-D

Have a look at this video, he explains it better than I do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nvH6gf ... 6D&index=7

GodLovesYou · **Joined:** Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:45 pm **Posts:** 330

Grillranger wrote:

Just wanted to point something out in this likelihood theory; let's keep one thing in mind: While odds of us being the way we are by random chance is extremely small, we have to remember one thing, that everything has exist in a certain state. It might be one in a trillion, but we still have to exist on one of the states in that trillion.

This is a problem for creationists, they can divide and find as much unlikelihood as they want, without taking into account that even if we were created, our existence would be just as unlikely as we simply have to exist in a certain state. And lets not forget, regardless of how small the chances are, given enough time it will happen. And since the universe is infinite, I'd say there's plenty of time. :-D

Have a look at this video, he explains it better than I do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nvH6gf ... 6D&index=7

Very true and great video btw... I'll have to check the whole series out.

Kaiserhawk · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:03 pm

I'm Agnostic

Theology and morality is actually a subject I find interesting, even if I don't show it with a huge wall of text or cases of tl;dr

The reason I'm an Agnostic is that I'm generally an open minded person and I am willing to accept others views and opinions even if I don't agree with them myself. Also my view on religion itself has stemmed from two events in time

The first being the Spanish conquest over the Aztecs. The Aztecs believed the Spanish to be gods because of their superior technology.

And the second is all the ancient religions that have either died down or died out. Surley the Norse god, or the greek gods would have had some basis and to me this diverse array of religious beliefs leads me to believe that nobody can be certain of which is the true religion.

I also believe in Evolution since there is evidence to help that theory unlike a certain creationist view in an old book.

Let me tell you something the Bible was written by man, and according the the bible man is imperfect so wouldn't that mean that the Bible itself is imperfect.

Ah crap I just made this tl;dr didn't I?

mscupcakes · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:10 pm

Honestly, I'm 100% Atheist, I used to be Catholic, but slowly lost faith in it, I still wanted to believe that some god existed, but eventually I came to the understanding that its impossible for a supreme being to exist.
I believe in logic and science.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Link · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:05 pm

I'm a non-practicing christian, or some other made up term/sub-category/group.

Here's how my faith goes, and it's my own customized personal system, which I think EVERYONE should have (not my system, but their own personal one.)

- I believe in God & Jesus and all that jazz, died for our sins, etc.

- I think the Bible is an excellently crafted story that was greatly embellished to some degree. Jesus himself was just a cool dude who was all... y'know, extra super nice. All around great guy. The Bible was created to teach the ways of Jesus and to be a guideline for all on how to morally live their lives.

- I don't need to go to church to speak with God, I don't need to confess my sins to a priest to be forgiven, just God himself. In short, a lot of the whole 'church' stuff of religion, I don't entirely believe in or care for.

- I'll be granted access to Heaven, or whatever magical R&R place I go to when I die, as long as I don't commit any uber atrocious sins like murder, rape, etc.

greenape · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:07 pm

I am a complete atheist , never had any doubt about that. about people saying they are agnostics well as i heard before agnostic is an atheist without balls

Kaiserhawk · **Posted:** Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:23 pm

greenape wrote:

I am a complete atheist , never had any doubt about that. about people saying they are agnostics well as i heard before agnostic is an atheist without balls

I'd like to say that Agnostic people are more willing to accept other views.

You know whats annoying? Hard Line atheists. You know about 95% of people on the internet

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