Pedophila and Reaction

Kaiserhawk · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:28 pm

Not to be that guy but is there any evidence to say that homosexuality isn't a mental disorder?

I mean there is supposidly a mental disorder for pretty much anything...sooooo why not a reason as to why some people like people of their own gender...

Just saying.

Link · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:11 pm

This is a really thought provoking conversation. I'm not opposed to the theory that homosexuality is a mental illness or a mutation or whatever else you'd want to throw out there. I'd say they are all very plausible concepts, and I suspect a lot of them have been researched in some degree. However, I doubt any real concrete evidence will ever be founded just because how "non-offensive" we all want to be here as humans (which is cool, I respect that, it just makes it hard to ever get any work done if you're walking around eggshells all day.)

As Crono and Darkseid pointed out, you can't just come out of the closet as a Pedophile. Even if you're admitting you have a problem and seeking help, you're still going to have a stigma, you're still going to be fucked every which way, dudes are going to hunt you down and beat the fuck out of you for their own enjoyment because they feel justified and think it's something that you're choosing to do, and that you're evil incarnate etc. I mean, if you're a pedophile, you might as well just commit suicide or move to Thailand because in this society you're fucked.

Danimal Collective · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:47 am

Crono wrote:

It sounds offensive to say homosexuality is a mental illness (which is a very offensive general statement, for sure), but it may be true that some people are homosexual as a result of mental illness, or rather, psychological trauma. Many mental illness' affect sexual orientation, regardless of what direction it makes the person lean: homosexual, heterosexual, bestiality, pedophilia, etc. There's so many mental sexual implications that it'd be a bit foolish to say, "oh yes, all of these orientations can be either natural or mentally induced, but not homosexuality ever, because homosexuals are oppressed enough". Which is how what you're saying is coming off.

People have all sorts of problems, and if you have a mental illness it can manifest is so many different ways.

I want to be clear, I'm not saying homosexuality is a mental illness. I'm saying that it's possible that someone can choose that sexual orientation (subconsciously) as a result of a mental illness due to psychological trauma, as well as any other sexual orientation. I'm pretty positive there's plenty of people who are strictly heterosexual due to psychological trauma ... or people who have a thing for amputees or drinking blood, etc, from psychological trauma and mental illness.

But then there's bisexuals and homosexual transsexuals, which, yes, we should accept in society, but you can't really say without a shadow of a doubt that some of those people have faced difficulties in their lives that could develop in that sort of disposition. For example someone who feels trapped in the opposite sex's body and is also homosexual, the homosexuality could be a further manifestation of their mental insecurity with who they are ... which doesn't sound like the same thing as a natural sexual desire.

People are very complex and brains are weird and segregating one sexual orientation over another because of social stigma and personal feelings is just silly and counter productive.

I'm saying homosexuality is natural... and it is. What the evolutionary purpose of homosexuality is is unknown (possibly mother nature's check on population control or some such theory) but the point is, it is natural, just like heterosexuality. My point is a vast majority of pedophilia is due to environmental factors (culture, sexual repression, childhood molestation, etc.). There are very few genuine cases, if any, of homosexuality being due to environment. It is something you are born with. Sexual orientation should not be grouped into psychiatric disorders like pedophilia or bestiality. Doing so is intellectually disingenuous and factually wrong. If you're unclear about the facts, consult the DSM. Also, you're getting homosexuality confused with fetishes... remember, nature vs. nurture. Fetishes are caused by environment. Nobody is born with an obsession with stumps or furry porn or farting in other people's mouths or whatever other hilarious fetishes I can think of right now.

Also, here's my other problem. That whole "homosexuality comes from the same place pedophilia comes from" is pure propaganda from the 50s. In the 50s, they used the excuse of homosexuality = pedophilia to bar gays from holding government jobs, teaching positions, and position of power. They also believed gays = communists because communists were atheists and how could you be a good American Christian if your were going against what the Bible teaches and fucking your same gender? Ergo, you must be a communist! They even made films to be shown in schools warning kids about the dangers of homosexuality because all homos are pedophiles:

All of this confusion about homosexuality stems from a societal homophobia that has been enforced for literally centuries.

Also, Kaiser, the scientists, geneticists, mental health professionals, and psychologists at the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association say homosexuality is not a mental disorder:

Quote:

In recognition of the scientific evidence, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, stating that “homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities.” After thoroughly reviewing the scientific data, the American Psychological Association adopted the same position in 1975, and urged all mental health professionals “to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientations.” The National Association of Social Workers has adopted a similar policy.

Maybe the reason this all bothers me is because I finally came out of the closet a little while ago... and Link I'm not asking people to walk on egg shells, I'm just asking them to use facts.

I'll just say this... homosexuality is not a mental illness. There is no scientific data or evidence saying it is other than propaganda from a long time ago. It's more than a little offensive to call it a mental illness.

Read this: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/h ... ealth.html

Things to get from this article:

Quote:

Some psychologists and psychiatrists still hold negative personal attitudes toward homosexuality. However, empirical evidence and professional norms do not support the idea that homosexuality is a form of mental illness or is inherently linked to psychopathology.

Crono · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:38 am

I want to point out again that I was NOT saying homosexuality was a mental illness. I said, people can develop a sexual orientation or desire due to mental illness from psychological trauma, there's a big difference.

You can't just be like, "oh no, all cases of homosexuality are natural" just because you yourself have come to terms with your sexuality ... Because, the fact of the matter is, that's not the case. There's bound to be plenty of people who are homosexual due to trauma and not natural urges.

This isn't to say that it's the most common homosexual (or heterosexual) behavior, I'm just making the point that: no sexual orientation is free from influences of past events in a person's life, just because it's something, personally, sensitive to you.

All kinds of trauma and normal life experiences shape what we become later in life, and this includes sexual desire.

Danimal Collective · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:19 am

Crono wrote:

I want to point out again that I was NOT saying homosexuality was a mental illness. I said, people can develop a sexual orientation or desire due to mental illness from psychological trauma, there's a big difference.

You can't just be like, "oh no, all cases of homosexuality are natural" just because you yourself have come to terms with your sexuality ... Because, the fact of the matter is, that's not the case. There's bound to be plenty of people who are homosexual due to trauma and not natural urges.

This isn't to say that it's the most common homosexual (or heterosexual) behavior, I'm just making the point that: no sexual orientation is free from influences of past events in a person's life, just because it's something, personally, sensitive to you.

All kinds of trauma and normal life experiences shape what we become later in life, and this includes sexual desire.

I think what set me off was "There's so many mental sexual implications that it'd be a bit foolish to say, "oh yes, all of these orientations can be either natural or mentally induced, but not homosexuality ever, because homosexuals are oppressed enough". Which is how what you're saying is coming off" because you implied I meant that homosexuality is the Holiest of Holies and should never be touched. I simply replied that homosexuality is a natural thing, I never said otherwise. When I said that, I didn't mean it's beyond the realm of possibility to be mentally induced through stress or trauma, but I've never seen a conclusive case myself recently. If you have one to show me, I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong that it happens in this day and age, but it's just something that doesn't happen due to the environment. Namely because of that societal homophobia I was talking about before. I've seen a few cases of heterosexuality being enforced through mental stress or trauma (look up "Reparative therapy")... but that's why I believe the suicide rate for gay men and women is so much higher than straight men and women, because there is a societal pressure to be straight to "fit in." There is no such societal pressure for people to be homosexual.

Also, pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia, and what have you are not orientations. The four recognized orientations are heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, and asexuality with a whole lotta gray in between. Once again, calling "philias" orientations is a myth and propaganda from a long time ago that is still leaking into mainstream consciousness. It's the same reason people still think Global Climate Change is a hoax or that the Theory of Evolution is a scam. They just haven't been given the facts in a clear concise manner or they're confused about the scientific language.

But, that previous post of mine was mostly a rebuttal to Kaiser and Link and their two statements/questions (Kaiserhawk: "Not to be that guy but is there any evidence to say that homosexuality isn't a mental disorder?" and Link:"I'm not opposed to the theory that homosexuality is a mental illness."). Once again, homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

Bottom bottom bottom line... homosexuality should be nowhere near a debate about pedophilia because those two things aren't connected or comparable. Just like heterosexuality isn't connected or comparable to pedophilia. Pedophilia is a recognized psychiatric disorder according to all mental health professionals and the DSM and is separate from orientation in every way.

Also.. I have no ill will towards anybody for their opinions, just to be clear. I hope I didn't come off as a know-it-all jerk, which I totally am btw... but I guess I did fly off the handle a bit there in the beginning. Tends to happen with me these days for some reason... I need to cut back on listening to political news, smoke some trees, and get laid more :mah:

Kaiserhawk · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:16 am

Danimal Collective wrote:

Also, Kaiser, the scientists, geneticists, mental health professionals, and psychologists at the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association say homosexuality is not a mental disorder:

Quote:

In recognition of the scientific evidence, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, stating that “homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities.” After thoroughly reviewing the scientific data, the American Psychological Association adopted the same position in 1975, and urged all mental health professionals “to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientations.” The National Association of Social Workers has adopted a similar policy.

Coolio White bread

Link · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:50 pm

I remember reading articles somewhere about homosexuality being nature's way of keeping populations in check, in a straight up "biological" level. Wish I could remember where I saw that.Not that it has anything to do with the greater topic of pedophiles.

If people want to spring this off into a separate topic, go for it. But from here on let's just stick to the main topic.

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