Also I'd like to play the argument that just because you're bad at a game doesn't make it bad. Take the game Contra 4 for the DS. I'm ALWAYS getting killed in that game and I never once made it past the first level. But do I think it's bad? No, I really like the game alot.

Dog, I don't think you ever actually play these games. In fact, reading your article about campers ruining online play pretty much cements that notion in my mind. You may think you play the games. You see, the game is the code on the disc and how you interact with it.

When you put mental blocks against what you call "noob tactics" you are not playing the game on as it is written. You are playing some game that exists only in your mind and accusing other people of cheating for violating rules that they never had to learn.

Why is having a high execution barrier so essential for you? Does behaving erratically in a way that can't be read easily being viable at least part of the time really devalue a game or are you desperate to convince yourself or others that the time you spent learning how to aim a guncamera with a lollipop on a spring was not wasted?

Not sure if that was directed at me or not, but if so, the difference here is that everyone is bad at contra :/, it's incredibly hard. I love the game as well, and I got to the second level before throwing my DS across the room. The reason why most people like that game though, is becuase of the insane difficulty, so using contra as an argument against hating a game becuase you suck at it is kind of flawed. To clarify, I'm not saying that when you suck at a game you're always going to hate it. I'm saying that it's natural to hate a game when you suck at it, just not natural to hate an entire genre based on a few titles that you never bothered to learn.

Can't really argue with the camping article as camping is bad for gaming according to Kant. How can you argue with Kant!? I don't know what you mean by not playing the games. I used to play SOCOM 2 and Halo 2 competitively and I guarentee a floor mop to anybody that faces me in Halo unless they are MLG then maybe they would beat me since I don't play at that level anymore.

As for Sugargene, I think you are projecting your own way of thinking onto me. You probably hate things that you are no good at. I do not. If I am not good at something, I try to get better at it if I think it's worth it. Also, most people don't just hate things because they aren't good at them. For example, I hate MMORPGs. Not because I'm not good at them but because they are a waste of money and far too time consuming for a busy man like myself. Let's see...I hate the PS3. Not because I don't own one, I could have easily purchased one, but because it's just a subpar console with shoddy online and very few games that interset me. If you dare call me a fanboy I would politely reply by pointing out the PS1 and PS2 are my top 2 favorite consoles of all time. I ain't a fanboy.

I have two other anecdotes to share which disprove Sugargenes theory that I hate fighters only because I "suck" at them. I HATE HALO 3. I HATE IT. It is one of the worst FPS games of all time. I reviewed it once and gave it half a star out of five. But yet...I am amazing at it. My K/D over Xbox LIVE is 2.7. I've won countless local tournaments and earned thousands. Yet I absolutely hate the game. Wonder why? Here's another. I am terrible at The Last Remnant. It's the hardest RPG I ever played and the ONLY RPG to ever "defeat" me. I can't get past this one part and I've never finished it. That's never happened in an RPG before. Do I hate this game? Nope. It's a really good game. I'd recommend it to others thatl ike RPGs and are looking for a different type of battle system. Yet it's really hard and kicked my ass. Based on your logic, I should say it sucks to try to save my own ego or something. Do you do this in real life or something?

I kind of wish I never mentioned I was "bad" at fighters in the article because I knew desperate people would latch onto it as their only hope of impeaching my credability. I thought it would have been better to come out and say I don't play fighters rather than trying to hide it or lie and say I was good. I'm not bad at fighters because I lack skill, I tried to explain this in the second part of the sentence which you, and many others, conveniently ignore to just say I'm bad. I'm only "bad" at them because I don't bother to play them. Like I said in an earlier post, if I wanted to, I could pick up any fighter, play it religiously, and compete at a high level. If I did this and became god at one would it then legitimize my article in your eyes? If you answer yes then it goes to show that it isn't the arguments you disagree with but the person who is saying them. It shouldn't matter who says something if it's still true and judging from the fact you have been unable to rebutt even ONE of the arguments put forth in the article, you probably don't have the ability to do so.

Here's a challenge for you. I dare you to purchase me a copy of Street Fighter IV for the Xbox 360 (because I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my money on a fighting game). Give me one year to play it to gain the necessary EXPERIENCE to win. After one year, I will destroy you in it at least 50% of the time. Care to take me up on this?

@Maximus Prime: don't get me started on sports games. I used to buy Madden every year before I realized it was just the same shit every time. I probably have eight or nine iterations of Madden just sitting on my shelf. The year that broke the camel's back for me was when there was a money play which my friend showed me in one years game that worked in the next. It got you a first down EVERY TIME. Even when playing online and people KNEW IT WAS COMING, it couldn't be stopped. After that I never played it again.

I also used to get NHL every year too but they started making it too realistic. I guess you could say this is a good thing but that's why I was playing it in the first place was because it was arcadey and fun. Now it's not fun, it's like a chore. Everytime the puck goes up against the boards in NHL 11 you gotta fight for possession. If I wanted to do that, I would have stuck with NHL 2k7 when they implemented that mechanic 4 years ago. The NHL franchise really went downhill.

Kant's universality principle doesn't work here since it's a game. Games are competitive exercises rather than microcosmic examples of community building. Game theory applies at all times. Games are played to win. If any categorical imperative could be said to apply it is to strive to win. Anything within the rules of the game that facilitates this ought to be used.

You say that fighting games just iterate on a paper-rock-scissors game. Camping or no iterates on a prisoner's dilemma game. You refuse to play and call out the game as immoral. That is not playing the game.

I'm not buying you any free games, so quit mooching. You ain't Pringles, and you lack the mindset to become Pringles.

Well I have had several Philosophy professors from two universities tell me that it fits perfectly in this modern day scenario and praised me for my use of it in the article so I guess I would disagree with you about the applicability of the universality test as it pertains to video games.

The lutz from this thread is quite high. Most impressive.

Please continue.

Ah, another stage in the flame war: the "I'm smarter than you" stage.

Well...I mean they are professors of Philosophy saying it was used correctly. Whose opinion on the subject would you trust if you were me? Them or some anonymous dude on some internet gaming forum?

No, I don't project myself onto anyone. It would be idiotic to think that I am, since I'm arguing so heavily against hating a game due to lack of skill. Why would you believe that the very thing I’m arguing against is something I partake in? Of course this is your logic so it does not surprise me. I also hate MMORPG’s and I can give you a ton of reasons why, but it’s still my opinion, that doesn’t mean that they suck, they’re just not the type of game I go for. I happen to love the PS3, and hate the Xbox, for similar reasons that you hate the PS3, we just have differing opinions about it, that’s all. That’s healthy to express those opinions, but you have to remember that they are OPINIONS, not FACT, which is what you’re trying to present your opinion about fighting games as.

I'm terrible at RTS games, but I still play them all the time, because I know they're good games. (omg SC2 is amazing!) My main point is that you'll never understand the game fully if you are not good at it. Whether or not you hate it because you suck at it is still up in the air (even though I'm pretty sure that's the case), but whatever the outcome it doesn't change the fact that you know jack-shit about fighting games. Argue that all you want, but everyone here knows that you don't know anything about them, you've already proven it to all of us with that terrible article. Most likely you think you're getting criticism because you article is edgy and offensive, and that is correct to a very small degree. What's really offensive is the stupidity and amateurism in that article. It's one thing to say something, have facts to back them up. It's another to take such an extreme stance and present it as a fact when all it's really just your opinion, a shitty one at that.


You can’t disprove me with your own personal anecdotes, jackass. There are countless anecdotes that will “prove” the opposite of what you’re saying. We could go back and forth all day with our own personal experiences and end up nowhere. The only way to prove someone wrong is with a fact, which is not something you have.



Again I can’t stress the fact that your skill level in the game influencing your hate for it is secondary. What it does influence is your knowledge of the game’s mechanics, and if your knowledge of the mechanics are lacking, then it’s natural to see that you may not like the game, because you really don’t understand it. I can’t put that any simpler.



I liked the smart use of impeachment followed by the incorrect spelling of “credibility”, it’s a good touch.



You’re assuming you could pick up a fighter play it religiously and compete at a high level. The sad truth is that you’re probably wrong. I’ve been playing street fighter for years and I play at a somewhat decent level, but compared to the pro-players, I’m nothing. Hey, maybe you should take your own advice and fucking DO THAT. Pick up a fighter, learn it, and tell us what you think then. We all know that’s never going to happen, and how convenient that is for you. I mean, you COULD become president if you wanted to, but you just don’t want to, right? You COULD sit down and learn everything there is to know about law, but you just don’t want to. It’s an excuse people use for things as minor as video games, to things as important as their career, or as critical as drug use. It’s a weak excuse for people to cover their own deficiencies.


You have no real “argument” to rebut, I can’t rebut your opinion jackass, I can only comment on how stupid it is.

Heh, I’d rather die. I would sooner buy a dildo and shove it up my mother’s asshole. Here’s why:
#1. The Xbox controller sucks dick for fighting games, and I’m not buying you a stick.
#2. This thread isn’t about whether or not you could beat me (which you could never do, I’ll just spam fireballs and watch you cry the most womanly tears of frustration anyone’s ever seen)
#3. Why pay to prove you wrong when I can just use your own stupidity against you, for free. It’s much more satisfying to me anyway.

You’re just going to misunderstand and argue the wrong points, and continue to dismiss all the times you have been made to look stupid (like your science and sports journalism crap). Any other respectable person would admit that what they’re saying is their own opinion, but not you, no no. You’re much too arrogant for that, your opinions should be treated as facts. Seriously, go play a fighting game, read a few books, and use spell-check before you try to sound smart.




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thank you for that.

MUST....NOT.....CONTINUE.....TROLLING TROLL THREAD......

Just give in man.... JOIN US! *HISSSSS*

I'd trust people who know the gaming culture.

Aight, I'm out.

EDIT: via my brother: Cool story bro.

Fighting games are good too. They have been around for a while and are one of the most popular genres of gaming even today. Yes, fighting games aren't for everyone but obviously there must be something to it because of how popular they are. If you don't like fighting games then that's fine but I wouldn't go out of my way to say that they completely suck.

Hahahaha he had to reduce himself to criticizing someones spelling on a FORUM. I couldn't monitor my spelling because for some reason this forum doesn't work so well on my browser (IE). When the post got too long, I wasn't able to see what I was typing. Once it surpassed the size of the original text box, no matter what I typed I couldn't scroll down to it, it would just auto-scroll up to the first sentence of the post every time I hit a key. All things considered, I thought I did pretty well typing blindly. Read a few books? Hell son, I've WRITTEN a few books. Look it up on Amazon. Then buy it. No, seriously do it. PAY ME MONEY.

I don't see how you could have personal anecdotes that would prove my way of thinking. That doesn't make sense. Weren't you trying to tell me how I only hate something because I suck at it? Wouldn't this be something unique to my personal level of thinking? In which case, wouldn't personal anecdotes showing the complete opposite of this be able to serve as compelling evidence as to why you are wrong about my way of thinking? How on EARTH could YOUR anecdotes prove MY way of thinking? What, are you going to share a scenario where you sucked at something and hated it so that must be what I'm doing? LOL!

As for people saying the article is terrible, SURPRISE SURPRISE! It's all people who love fighters! Everybody who is unbiased on the subject has commended me. I wonder why the biased people hate it while the unbiased people love it? Curious...but hey. It made me around $300 and counting so you can say it is terrible all you want. Can you write something that will earn you that much considering you believe yourself to be so much wiser than me. Eh, Professor?

I had a feeling you wouldn't take up the challenge, Sugargene. Looks like you are nothing but talk. It would have been hilarious to whip your ass and then hear you apologize and grovel for your error in jdugement. Move along, citizen.

tl;dr

You would trust people who know the gaming culture to make a determination whether or not a philosophical principle is being applied correctly to a real life scenario...Uh....I GUESS that made sense?

I'd trust people to know the gaming culture to know about gaming and whether or not fighting games truly suck, smartass. What the fuck do fighting games have to do with philosophy?

We weren't talking about that. We were talking about the proper usage of Kant's universality test as it was applied in my article about campers. Then you pitched in saying you would trust the word of people who know gaming culture over that of philosophy professors to determine whether or not the test was used correctly.