Okay, so I'm a little surprised no one has made a thread about this. Well, title says it all. Talk about Occupy Wall Street here. Are you for it, against it? Do you think it's filled with a bunch of hippy pot heads, or rich kids? Are the police too violent and unjust with their arrests?

I think it started out as a good idea, but has turned into what most other protests turn into; A bunch of ignorant hippies meeting up with almost no idea what they're protesting.

Don't get me wrong, it started out as a good cause, and could still work it's way back to becoming one, but yeah. I think most of the people who are there just show up because there's a protest and have no idea why.

The thing that makes me the most disgusted is the issues with the police forces at all of these "Occupy" protests. People who eat up the viral videos of police brutally assaulting groups of people for what seems like no reason. The problem here is we never get the full context of why the police had to use force to remove people. Most of the back story we get is from the protesters themselves who, in every case, were just "protesting peacefully" then the cops started pepper spraying them and busting them up because 'their message isn't what rich people like and cops are protecting the rich and abusing their own power."
For example, the event in Oakland that got busted up. Kids who posted videos and stories stated that the cops just started firing rubber bullets and shooting tear gas canisters into their peaceful protest. A few days later, other people who were at the protest as well as other videos of the event show that the police where giving warnings for the people to move out and that the crowd was actually throwing rocks and bottles at the police. The police HAVE to break this stuff up, they've seen large groups like this get restless before, and they don't want the situation to turn into a riot. Not saying that the cops are right to shoot gas canisters at people's faces and what not, but the propaganda being spread now about how cops are the enemy is getting on my nerves.
My main point is, I don't feel the people who are protesting on Wall street have a clear message anymore and it's seeming more and more that the attention is being taken away from their main point, and now being focused more on the police in this country. The initial problem was that the top 1% of the population owned over 40% of the wealth in the country but only about 5% of the debt. (http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1) As well as the unemployment situation.

TL:DR = I think it's become a bunch of hipsters who don't even know what they're protesting anymore who scream "Police Brutality" when their fellow protesters get out of hand and don't listen to the police when they are breaking up the crowd.

Bunch of commies who hate american capitialism and want to terrorize hard working people. Should reopen Guantanamo and send those dirty hippies there.

Who exactly are they terrorizing? Looks like they are protesting peacefully.

Better than the Tea Party.

I disagree... I've been to Occupy Chicago many times already and it's pretty clear to me (and everybody there) what this is all about. It's about fighting against the greed and corruption of the %1. That is the general umbrella that unites all the protesters under it. Some are fighting for campaign finance reform to get the money out of politics, some are fighting for tighter financial regulation so the crash of '08 (and the imminent one in our future) doesn't happen again, some are trying to close the socio-economic disparity that is out of control in this country (so much so that Kazakhstan has a lower disparity than we do), some are fighting for peace, some for jobs, some for justice against the people responsible for the crash, some for the environment, and then there are some that are there for all those reasons and more... like me.

It's called the %99 movement for a reason. It's not just hipsters or whatever dismissive term you want to use so you don't have to think about it too hard. It's everybody. Teachers, construction workers, financiers, salesmen, unemployed, thinkers, musicians, police, ex-military, preachers, imams, mothers, fathers, social workers... anybody you can think of is a part of this movement.

Also, on the police brutality:



The man who was hit the face with a tear gas canister fired from a grenade launcher did two tours in Iraq... as far I know, he is still in critical condition with swelling in the brain. I went to a candle light vigil for him in Chicago yesterday. The police threw a grenade at the crowd who were trying to help a critically injured man. Clearly, the police weren't doing a thing to help the dying veteran they injured.

That's only one instance of police brutality in the Occupy Protests. Many others have been hosed with pepper spray, beaten with billy clubs, hit with rubber bullets and beanbags, brutally arrested and beaten in cuffs. I know, I've seen it.

Also, the police have no reason to break up the crowds. It's a peaceful demonstration. The only mass violence in the movement has been done by the police or by "new shoes" (counter-protest violent agitators) infiltrating the movement, like this guy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... _blog.html

Patrick Howley, a new shoe running a black flag operation, rushed the barriers at the DC protest trying to get the protesters to follow him.

And then there's this asshole.



For those of you don't know, he pepper sprayed a group of woman who were behind an orange fence. They weren't throwing things, they weren't trying to break through the fence, and they weren't assaulting anyone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -days.html

You can also find the video of this happening on youtube.

As for what Danimal said, he sums it up pretty good. Aside from it being a good exercise in democracy and people's right to free speech/freedom, it's about people being sick and tired of how the government seems to squander taxpayers money on war efforts even though at this point nothing seems to be getting done. The richest 1% being the private corporations that profit off of the fact that we will go in debt or become sick and need medical treatment is what it's mostly about to me. The system just isn't working and it's contributing to so many problems in the US right now.

Judge for yourself, were the police the aggressors or were the protesters? Reportedly, the protesters were throwing everything from bricks to kitchen utensils at the police, which caused the raid... according to initial reports.

Danimal, Brofist.

I agree with this protest and I'm sick of people being so meh or judgmental about it. We need some god damn anger in this country, we need to show people that the shit going on can't fly anymore. It's being done with non-violence and therefore should be allowed to happen. We need a damn counter-balance in this country, people who actually make some sort of sense for once.

Everyone sees it as a bunch of hippies, which yes the protest has seemed to attract that sort of crowd but it's still made up of people that want to see a difference and know what they are protesting. Also, Fox news and CNN aren't helping one bit. They interview a bunch of people that are dressed casually and they say that these people aren't taking the protest seriously, so they dress up in suites and ties (there are companies donating clothes to occupy wall street protesters) in an attempt to be taken seriously and the mainstream media looks at them and says "well look, it's just a bunch of rich kids".

We all know why the media isn't giving the protesters the time of day and the proper coverage, it's because these right wing mainstream media stations represent the private corporations that these people are protesting (the richest 1%). The good news is that people are starting to looks past the prejudice and see that occupy wall street isn't just made up of weird hippies that have no idea what they are talking about, but educated young people that have a firm grasp on why they are there and want to make a difference.

But........ this guy isn't helping their case. Even if his heart is in the right place.

Protesting greed and corruption doesn't do shit but feed in to the greed and corruption. All it does is feed money into the non-lethal weapons manufacturers to develop more effective, non-lethal weapons. Either live out your life quietly and play by the rules or become part of that 1% and make the rules you want to live by.

The United States is going to eat itself alive from the inside out.

Imagine if the Civil Rights Movement had a similar view as this.

@darkseid for reals.

Yeah, and now we have blacks in government, positions of power and billionaires. In other words, they became part of that 1% that makes the rules. It was part of the civil rights movement for blacks to be a part of all aspects of this country, voting, schools, and policy making.

I guess my point is this - protests and "democracy in action" today means people who have no fucking clue what freedom is about and how to enact change get together and support a cause that they have no fucking clue what it's really about. It's just the cool, in thing to get together and trash on the system as it is rather than enact some real change.

Democracy in action isn't protest, it's about gathering enough support of your cause and getting your cause on ballots so the masses can either agree or disagree with your views. This movement will end up being forgotten about in a month because people who say they are really devoted to it will realize that their bills aren't getting paid because their bitch asses are getting fired for not showing up to work. Once that starts to happen they will drop like flies and poof, movement gone until the next hot protest opportunity shows up.

Edit: I want to make sure I'm not sounding like a complete communist here. I applaud people who exercise their rights in an attempt to enact change. My problem is that protests these days seem to be the "cool" thing to do and people do it just to say they were part of it, not to truly enact change. True change is more than just showing up saying you want change, it is a long and laborious process that takes place over years and decades, not days or months. My beef is with the fact that when change doesn't happen in two minutes the people who show up bail on the movement because it's too much effort.

FYI occupy oakland is getting ridiculous again....thanks to michael moore. oh well good thing the raiders are on a bye week.

You know what system of government you're describing? It's called a plutocracy, or ruled by the wealthy. You admit it in your posts, the US is now a plutocracy... and you're kind of right. That is what we're fighting against. We are fighting to keep the United States from becoming a complete plutocracy because you know what happens to citizens in a plutocracy? This:



and this:



and this:



and this:



and this:



and this:



and this:



All these countries were theocracies, totalitarian, and also plutocracies.... I don't want future citizens of this country have to go through something like that, so we are stamping it out before it goes any further. Movements do make a difference, time and time again, history has proven that.



Sorry, but that sort of Democracy is broken... it doesn't work like that today. A majority of Americans wanted a Public Option, a majority wanted the tax cuts to expire, a majority wanted investigations into major investment banks Wall Street concerning the financial collapse, a majority wants tax loop holes closed, a majority want strong regulation... however, the people in power have consistently blocked such things because they are controlled by money. I could post 100 dozen articles, facts, figures, and charts showing how massive corporate campaign donations since the floodgates were opened in the '80s have changed the face of politics and how the country is ran. We want the money out of politics so we CAN have the system you are describing.

The country is broken, we're just trying to fix it the way it's been fixed over and over again for the past 100 years.



Who has bailed on the protest? I haven't. The protest is getting bigger and bigger... and you know what recent protest worked and actually got change? The Tea Party protest. They actually got the healthcare legislation to change (for the worse) by pressuring representatives through mass demonstrations.

Danimal, you've managed to write my thoughts when I couldn't.

Thank you.

Tell you what, let's revisit this in a month, then three, then six, then a year. If the protest is still as strong or stronger, I will admit I was wrong in my line of thinking. If it manages to enact change, real change, I will admit I was wrong. I have no issue stating that my line of thought may be incorrect. I just don't think it is, I think people will lose interest, the movement will stall and the protests will stop. While I am encouraged by your dedication, you can't speak for the movement as a whole, only yourself.

The Tea Party protested health care reform and got change through the legal system. Saying you want to change how the ruling class rules through protest is a different animal entirely. The first worked within the system, the second is asking to change the system. Those in power won't relinquish their power because some people with cardboard signs demand it. By changing health care through protest and legislation that is stating that "that kind" of democracy does still work.

Change in societal structure won't happen by sleeping in tents on the sidewalks screaming about injustice in the way the upper echelon mandates the masses. True societal change occurs naturally over time or through violent revolution. Anything else is a waste of time or a trend for people to feel like they are a part of something bigger than themselves but without having to truly risk anything. Do you really think that a good portion of these people are willing to lay it all on the line for this cause?

What are you talking about?

That's not what happened at all.

Well, first off, protests aren't designed to last indefinitely they are designed to spark a movement (hopefully, the %99 Movement). The people in Selma, AL only marched for a few days... they didn't march for the entire Civil Rights period. It was the marches, the sit-ins, the massive community organizing, and the people that got Civil Rights to pass through mass demonstration organized by a singular movement. This Occupation is just the first shot. I think this will spark a movement. Also, the fact that now many cities and towns are now having their own Occupy Protests is evidence of that.

Second, you're just flat wrong on the Tea Party.

Third:



They didn't change it through legislation, the representatives did. They protested and marched and got massive media coverage. I can't walk into congress and propose an amendment to a bill, I need to get a representative to do that. Unfortunately, if you aren't backed by the corporations and, by association, their massive amounts of money (like the Tea Party was, SEE: FreedomWorks, Tea Party Express, Americans for Prosperity, Koch Industries), the reps wont listen to you. That is what we are trying to change. We're going to force them to listen.



I don't remember voting on the healthcare bill, do you? If the American people voted on the healthcare bill, we'd have single payer by a large margin. We, the people, do not vote on federal legislation or even state legislation most of the time, our representatives do that. The problem is, our reps are mostly bought off by people who have the money and profits to gain from certain legislation. I still contend that our Democratic system is broken and the only way to change it is through mass demonstrations.

And yes, I do believe that people will "lay it all on the line" because that is what they're doing right now. Everyday, the people out there are risking it all by being out there. Scott Olsen, the former Marine that got hit in the head with a tear gas canister, is now awake but totally nonverbal... probably for the rest of his life. He risked it all. I only wish I could be at my local Occupy protest more than three days a week.